QotD: Modern Classic

Comments

white noise is an excellent choice. i remember the fried chicken scene vividly in my memory. and it wasn't that the scene was especially dramatic. but i think that it perfectly encapsulated what DeLillo was trying to say in the work itself.
[this is good]
Show me these gibbons.

Please note, before anyone gets all up in my face with their pedantry: Yes, I know that's not a gibbon.

But, sgazzetti, if gibbons can play the dulcimer, then I'm pretty sure they could operate Internet Explorer.

The Hours should be read along with the Mrs. Dalloway.
Good choices...I have to agree.
I'm sad to say I havn't read a single book on that list. Guess I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide to get off my ass and head to the library, instead of just raiding the collections of my parents and friends.

As for videogames not making people think enough, that really depends on the game.

I didn't say video games didn't make people think enough--I said they don't make you think in the same way as reading does. And they don't. The reason that may matter is that modern human consciousness is probably born from literacy. It's a long story, that one, but the ability to build a narrative self, for example, began in conjunction with literacy, and the way modern humans think is built on the narrative self and its features. It's too complicated for a mere comment--I'll try to work up a post on it sometime.

As for the list: It is American-centric for sure. You Aussies are probably better off reading...um...books about koalas? I don't know. Something like that.

I quite like the angle of repose metaphor in Stegner's novel, but am curious as to why you feel this book should be read, taught, considered, etc by future high school kids. What is it about it that you feel they need to know?

I would say Catcher in the Rye probably had the most effect on me at that age. I first read it in junior high and then again in high school. I found it incredibly humorous and rebellious and edgy compared to the books we were forced to read in class. I suppose I should read it again all these years later to see how it rates. Kid-wise, though, I'm for Catcher in the Rye. Though I'm not sure it ranks as modern. I never did take the time to figure out modern, post-modern, etc. They're all just books to me. At any rate, it would be interesting to learn what today's high school kids think about it. Hopefully they wouldn't find it too lame or tame.

Reading is not just a hobby, although it is that, too; it's both root and sustenance for a complete way of thinking and being.

Of course!!! I think if blinded, the first thing I'd do is learn braille. Forget getting from A to B. I'd have to read. The thought of not being able to read bothers me so much I sometimes consider learning braille while sighted just in case. I digress, but reading braille does seem like a wonderfully tactile way to assimilate words, no? God bless Louis Braille. Braille and Camus. You've gotta at least respect the French for that.

Hahaha...I have also considered learning Braille just in case, and anyway it seems like it would be an interesting thing to know how to do, and I've often wondered how the reading experience changes when a different sense is involved.

Anyway, I thought we had to read Catcher in the Rye in high school already? Maybe not. I read it in high school, too--come to think of it, I probably did read it on my own, because doesn't he talk about masturbation? God forbid. My English teacher was totally unprepared for such a topic (or one of them was--I think the other two would have had tremendous fun with it, considering one of them used to come to work with hickeys on her neck and the other one snickered when my friend and I announced, while discussing The Handmaid's Tale, that we wanted to make this poor guy who sat across from us our sex slave. Anyway).

I took "modern" to mean written and published in the last 50 years or so, rather than as referring to a movement. Don DeLillo, for example, is really postmodern in the sense you're referring to, but it's a modern novel, in the sense of having been published recently.

Angle of Repose is an important book, I think, because of at least a couple of things. There is, of course, the historical aspect of it and the myth of the West and sense of place and all that. For me, though, the thing I think about most in relation to that book--and it is one I think of very often--is the meaning of responsibility and commitment.

I just wrote a long paragraph about the meaning of the destruction of the rose garden, but it would be better saved for a dialogue. The book is ripe with opportunities for asking yourself what your responsibilities are in a marriage, how they've changed since feminism, and so forth. It's a question worth thinking about, because I don't get the impression that people really have any clear idea anymore, and commitments get thrown over all the time now as people pursue these very shallow and selfish notions of "happiness."

Yes, I'm a cantankerous old biddy.

I think Catcher in the Rye was banned from many reading lists due to its content. I know I read it on my own. Not sure how I found out about it. This book opened my eyes to an edgier form of literature and pointed me toward the Beats, Henry Miller, etc. I'm grateful for that.

I read Angle of Repose as part of a reading group. The group consisted of two guys and many women of various ages. A long discussion ensued over the roses. Well, a long discussion amongst the women ensued. We two guys simply said we understood why he pulled up the roses. We didn't say we agreed just that we understood and left it at that. The women, however, couldn't leave it alone. They were all up in arms about it and talked endlessly about it. I pretty much stared out the window after that. From my horribly small sample size, I'd say this book seems to affect women more than men. At any rate I would like to hear your take on the roses. Maybe you can drive your point home through this thick skull of mine.

Oh, I understand why he did it. I might even have done so myself, and I don't think it was only because he was angry at her--obviously, there's a lot going on at the time. But I think for women, how much she gave up to follow him is of great importance. She left her beloved family and friends, her society, the art museums and witty banter and everything, basically, every chance she might have had of being someone other than Mrs.--and all through the book, she keeps thinking that someday she'll get to go back, that someday this geological survey and all of that will end, and she'll go back, and this is just an adventure...but then it becomes life, rather than some great adventure. And I don't think he really understands that; I don't think he even can. Most men argue, understandably, that he pulled up the rose garden because she utterly failed in her commitments to him, and obviously at that time in history, that's the only important thing. But, from a modern woman's viewpoint, he failed in his commitments to her, too.

But we womenfolk are uppity these days.

[this is good]

and this is exactly why i'm quite glad i didn't go to public school. because i know how to read critically, and support my criticism/analysis with research/citations from the book (i don't think it ever hurt that i am a reading addict, however). am i the only one who quite enjoyed trying to figure out what words meant from context?

but then, i was also a classics major, so research is the other thing i do well.

anyway, the only book i've read on your list is The Handmaid's Tale, which i quite enjoyed. I also remember kinda reading A Canticle for Lebowitz in high school, and i definitely read for class The Martian Chronicles (and loved it), and Flowers for Algernon (for an Ethics class... hey, it was a Catholic HS). We read Shakespeare, and Austen, and we had to read Catcher in the Rye. i read it, and i hated it. Hated stupid effing Holden Caulfield and wanted to yell at him to just shut up for a while.

Sadly, since then my reading tastes have quite gone down the tubes and are woefully prosaic these days--commercial fiction and urban Fantasy/suspense. at least i still read, though.

well, i prefer uppity women. but i do have to go back and read the book at some point. i really can't remember much leading up to the pulling of the roses. what were his commitments to her? were they expressed? or was he just supposed to intuitively figure them out? i honestly can't remember. it's been about 12 or 13 years since i read the book.

the roses i remember. more for the self-lacerating aspect of withdrawing his love than for a vindictive action toward her. roses are an over-used metaphor but apropos here.

my favorite metaphor of the book, however, is the angle of repose. that more than anything has stuck with me over the years...finding one's angle of repose. i think it must have been stegner's favorite as well. else he would have called the novel pulling up roses or some such thing.

what was it about holden that you so despised? granted, he was a self-centered prick, but he was a confused and occasionally amusing self-centered prick.

do you have a favorite book about teenage rebellion or rebellion in general? if so, care to share?

honestly, it's been so long since i read it that i don't remember if there was a precise reason i disliked him so much. it might just be that i hadn't gotten to a point where i could read a book with a dislikable central character (which i still have problems with occasionally). it might have just been that he was just a self-centered prick, and he rubbed me the wrong way. it might be that i didn't like Salinger's writing.

um... teenage rebellion... hmmm. i can't think of anything off the top of my head. i will readily admit that i'm not as well-read as i probably should be, when it comes to "literature". at least, not modern lit.

Yes, the angle of repose metaphor is a favorite of mine, too. It's right up there with structural integrity.

But of course the pulling of the roses is the...erm...climax? The crux, the turning point, the cataclysm. After that, it's all settling.

As far as I can remember (and it's been a while since I read it too), he doesn't expressly tell her that they will someday go back home and that she will get to see her family and resume her artistic life and all that. I'm not sure she expressly tells him, either, that she will just follow him around for the rest of her life, though. Wives were expected to, because their lives as individuals weren't very important, but you can see all through the book that that breaks her heart.

As I said, I think that was fairly common at the time, but is that what marriage should look like? One person has to lose her self to the couple, while the other does not?

Well, I sure as hell wouldn't put up with that.

Anyway, I want to be clear about one thing: I don't think the literature provides the answers. It would be shitty literature if it did. It should provide questions and some ways of looking at the questions, a springboard for thinking about things. It's not like Stegner was out there saying, I'm going to teach these people a lesson! Thank heavens.

individuals should take responsiblity for their own lives. none of this having affairs or pulling up roses because we didn't get what we wanted. but life gets in the way, love twists our heads, our pathways become murky. hence literature and discussions about would have, should have, could have. if only we could focus on determining our angles of repose. when dumped down the slippery slope, surely some male and female rocks find themselves settling at the same angle. but do we wait until we find that angle before taking a chance on each other or do we try to figure it out while we're tumbling down that slope? if you take the chance, you might just settle in okay. if not, you might just have your roses pulled. there's no wrong or right. just different paths and different angles. you do what you can. that's my take anyway.

i think any author would be pleased if his/her protagonist elicited a strong response in his/her reader. i liked holden, envied his reckless ability to fuck-up, admired his readiness to call bullshit on all that he saw as bullshit in his life, and found touching his devotion to his sister phoebe. the things you found annoying were probably the same things i found funny. and so it goes.

before you give up on salinger or even if you already have, i'd encourage you to read his short story, "Teddy". You can find it the book Nine Stories if you're so inclined. It won't take much of your time and it's certainly worth the read. but then again i liked holden.

nice chatting with you.

Post a comment

Already a Vox member? Sign in

About Me

GinBaby
United States
Just sittin here pretendin I know shit.

My Groups

Neighborhood

  • Jack Yan
  • Ninja
  • cat
  • RPM
  • mcco12

Explore friends, family, friends & family, or entire neighborhood.

Archives